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	<title>Comments on: Charging an Hourly Rate vs. Charging per Song</title>
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	<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/</link>
	<description>The Pro Audio Files &#124; Recording, Mixing and Production Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 21:06:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Lance W Conrad</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-43932</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance W Conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 16:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-43932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reputation!  It took some time, but by limiting myself to working with clients that I love and can be inspired by, I built a portfolio of quality music.  Sure, there were a couple years where it was difficult to make ends meet, but now I&#039;m booked up solid with great acts and more amateur bands that want in have to play the waiting game. I typically ask for 200-300/song for mixing alone after they&#039;ve payed 50/hour to track everything.  My clients understand that I will mix their songs in my studio&#039;s down time and so it will take longer than if we were to book out hours for it, but they would end up spending 500/mix if they paid me for the actual hours spent mixing!

It&#039;s an investment that a lot of clients feel confident about because it means that I will deliver exactly what they&#039;re expecting, or more. They can either pay someone a lower rate for a decent product, or step it up for a timeless product.  


Oh, and ditto on the DAW management complaint.  Interns are a huge help when it comes to pre-mixing and organization of sessions!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reputation!  It took some time, but by limiting myself to working with clients that I love and can be inspired by, I built a portfolio of quality music.  Sure, there were a couple years where it was difficult to make ends meet, but now I&#8217;m booked up solid with great acts and more amateur bands that want in have to play the waiting game. I typically ask for 200-300/song for mixing alone after they&#8217;ve payed 50/hour to track everything.  My clients understand that I will mix their songs in my studio&#8217;s down time and so it will take longer than if we were to book out hours for it, but they would end up spending 500/mix if they paid me for the actual hours spent mixing!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an investment that a lot of clients feel confident about because it means that I will deliver exactly what they&#8217;re expecting, or more. They can either pay someone a lower rate for a decent product, or step it up for a timeless product.  </p>
<p>Oh, and ditto on the DAW management complaint.  Interns are a huge help when it comes to pre-mixing and organization of sessions!</p>
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		<title>By: Innuksuk</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-43208</link>
		<dc:creator>Innuksuk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 23:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-43208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What if you&#039;re the only up-coming producer in the area and you want their music to be distributed/heard?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if you&#8217;re the only up-coming producer in the area and you want their music to be distributed/heard?</p>
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		<title>By: logic the mad conductor</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-22753</link>
		<dc:creator>logic the mad conductor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-22753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beware of the new breed of engineers like myself. I own a small basement studio n my rates murder big studios but my sound keeps my clients around. Some of my mixes sound better than big pro studios. The plugin game was the great equalizer. If there if one highly skilled young engineer in ur area. Even one...he will take a lot of ya money. Do urself a favor n hire him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beware of the new breed of engineers like myself. I own a small basement studio n my rates murder big studios but my sound keeps my clients around. Some of my mixes sound better than big pro studios. The plugin game was the great equalizer. If there if one highly skilled young engineer in ur area. Even one&#8230;he will take a lot of ya money. Do urself a favor n hire him.</p>
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		<title>By: Online Mixing</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-22153</link>
		<dc:creator>Online Mixing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 20:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-22153</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I charged regardless of track count at the moment which can even itself out in the log run but does hit hard when the 100 track project lands!
I&#039;m certainly thinking of changing things around though as there has been a few big editing sessions that really cut into the profits..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I charged regardless of track count at the moment which can even itself out in the log run but does hit hard when the 100 track project lands!<br />
I&#8217;m certainly thinking of changing things around though as there has been a few big editing sessions that really cut into the profits..</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-19323</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2012 12:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-19323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What I tend to do to the client is charge 170$ per song. Depending on how many songs they want I will set a limit. When the day passes the limit I will then charge 20% of the sum per hour which is reasonable. It pleases both parties and seemed to work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I tend to do to the client is charge 170$ per song. Depending on how many songs they want I will set a limit. When the day passes the limit I will then charge 20% of the sum per hour which is reasonable. It pleases both parties and seemed to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Bondi</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-16945</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Bondi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-16945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I setup rates by track number. This way if someone is on a budget they can create stems. Check out my rates page http://www.optimizestudios.com/rates-for-online-mixing-and-online-mastering

This method seems to work for a lot of younger clients who record at home and have a modest budget]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I setup rates by track number. This way if someone is on a budget they can create stems. Check out my rates page <a href="http://www.optimizestudios.com/rates-for-online-mixing-and-online-mastering" >http://www.optimizestudios.com/rates-for-online-mixing-and-online-mastering</a></p>
<p>This method seems to work for a lot of younger clients who record at home and have a modest budget</p>
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		<title>By: chris legacy</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-16695</link>
		<dc:creator>chris legacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-16695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[in my area, we happen to have these same issues. I have a well rated studio but client base is quite low. The smaller PC home studios seem to get the jobs. And ofcourse their final production, nothing to write home about. The clients still complain about our 180 dollars per song charge. Our final output is great &amp; they agree but they just find it difficult bringing out the money.
Pls what do i do?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in my area, we happen to have these same issues. I have a well rated studio but client base is quite low. The smaller PC home studios seem to get the jobs. And ofcourse their final production, nothing to write home about. The clients still complain about our 180 dollars per song charge. Our final output is great &amp; they agree but they just find it difficult bringing out the money.<br />
Pls what do i do?</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Kahn</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-9964</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Kahn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-9964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m in sort of the kindergarten phase of my studio, however I&#039;ve now had opportunities to try out a number of different pricing structures. Of course I&#039;m being undercut by basement studios, however I&#039;d say 50-60% of my clients so far have come to me after lousy results from such outfits. 

When you have rent to cover and nothing on your plate in terms of references or a portfolio, charging very low, package rates can give dubious musicians the incentive to go for it. Too much uncertainty makes them nervous (and believe me, from being on both sides of the fence now I&#039;m well aware of how much though the majority of musicians put into this kind of expense), and since your entire business setup is shrouded in uncertainty when you start out you have to sort of make up for it. 

Down the line, hourly rates (especially for tracking) are simply the best to work with. It&#039;s fair pay, and makes the work you put in seem more worthwhile. There&#039;s nothing more frustrating when you&#039;re working with a package deal than a musician who&#039;s dithering, doing too many takes, simply asking for too much. 

The catch is that even once you&#039;ve established yourself and your business, artists on a tight budget, or those who are completely new to the world of recording are terrified of the hourly rate. In pre-production meetings I bring it up and watch their smiles turn into disappointed frowns. At that point I like to whip out the hybrid deal --  a package rate including limited tracking hours, and a steep hourly rate that kicks in once said tracking hours are used up. This benefits both parties, the artist feels they have a chance to get their project done on budget, and the engineer has a safety valve built in should the artist decide they want to embellish upon their original plan (which so far, ALWAYS happens).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in sort of the kindergarten phase of my studio, however I&#8217;ve now had opportunities to try out a number of different pricing structures. Of course I&#8217;m being undercut by basement studios, however I&#8217;d say 50-60% of my clients so far have come to me after lousy results from such outfits. </p>
<p>When you have rent to cover and nothing on your plate in terms of references or a portfolio, charging very low, package rates can give dubious musicians the incentive to go for it. Too much uncertainty makes them nervous (and believe me, from being on both sides of the fence now I&#8217;m well aware of how much though the majority of musicians put into this kind of expense), and since your entire business setup is shrouded in uncertainty when you start out you have to sort of make up for it. </p>
<p>Down the line, hourly rates (especially for tracking) are simply the best to work with. It&#8217;s fair pay, and makes the work you put in seem more worthwhile. There&#8217;s nothing more frustrating when you&#8217;re working with a package deal than a musician who&#8217;s dithering, doing too many takes, simply asking for too much. </p>
<p>The catch is that even once you&#8217;ve established yourself and your business, artists on a tight budget, or those who are completely new to the world of recording are terrified of the hourly rate. In pre-production meetings I bring it up and watch their smiles turn into disappointed frowns. At that point I like to whip out the hybrid deal &#8212;  a package rate including limited tracking hours, and a steep hourly rate that kicks in once said tracking hours are used up. This benefits both parties, the artist feels they have a chance to get their project done on budget, and the engineer has a safety valve built in should the artist decide they want to embellish upon their original plan (which so far, ALWAYS happens).</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Whitfield</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-8868</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Whitfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 09:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-8868</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve gone round in circles with this one, as I expect everyone has. An hourly rate gives me a sense that I&#039;m treated fairly, but a fee per job is what the client wants to see - the best I can hope for is that there is a little flexibility in that figure as the job evolves.  To protect myself from screwing up, I try to get as much background info about the job and the client as possible. If they expect to be able to make multiple revisions then I have to build that in, if they are going to be happy with what I do then the figure may well be less.  As John says, clearing up someone else&#039;s mistakes is one to try and avoid when you aren&#039;t getting paid for it!  Jason refers to it as the “echelon of client” - like it!
Set the rate and do the work is a great phrase to have pinned above your workstation too, on those occasions when you find yourself getting pissed about doing more than you expected. If I&#039;ve agreed to do a job, I just need to get on with it and do it properly, whatever the financial arrangement. Great post - found you via Twitter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve gone round in circles with this one, as I expect everyone has. An hourly rate gives me a sense that I&#8217;m treated fairly, but a fee per job is what the client wants to see &#8211; the best I can hope for is that there is a little flexibility in that figure as the job evolves.  To protect myself from screwing up, I try to get as much background info about the job and the client as possible. If they expect to be able to make multiple revisions then I have to build that in, if they are going to be happy with what I do then the figure may well be less.  As John says, clearing up someone else&#8217;s mistakes is one to try and avoid when you aren&#8217;t getting paid for it!  Jason refers to it as the “echelon of client” &#8211; like it!<br />
Set the rate and do the work is a great phrase to have pinned above your workstation too, on those occasions when you find yourself getting pissed about doing more than you expected. If I&#8217;ve agreed to do a job, I just need to get on with it and do it properly, whatever the financial arrangement. Great post &#8211; found you via Twitter.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Detering</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-5992</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Detering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-5992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can think of few other business that would ever work on a &#039;by the song&#039; basis.  I find making records akin to building (and/or repairing) a house.  Carpenters always work by the hour.  Why?  Because you never really know what you&#039;re going to run into.  Fact, I gutted my sister&#039;s bathroom last weekend; a job that I felt would take three days.  Two hours into demo I discover that the toilet flange and drain assembly is completely shot and must be replaced.  Naturally, this adds labor and material cost to the job...

Records are almost always the same way.  Even when you think you&#039;ve got a grip on the artist&#039; talent, ability and readiness levels, there&#039;s still the whole qualitative end of things.  How solid is your level of value alignment with the client?  Is your notion of &#039;good&#039; the same as yours?  Is their &#039;good&#039; your &#039;good enough&#039;?  Naturally, the inverse could be true, too.

This can lead to serious issues when trying to manage the relationship with your client.

Now - if you&#039;re super into an artist and you really want the work, bid for the entire record. But make sure that you can really live with the trade of your time vs. the paycheck.  If I know I can count on a client to keep me busy for three weeks, I&#039;m more than happy to lower my day rate.  But if I&#039;m coming in for three hours, you better believe you&#039;ll be paying premium.

Anyone working for fifteen bucks an hour needs a lesson in business.  That is, unless they are content making minimum wage. All in all, be able to explain your value to your prospective customers - if they don&#039;t get it, the relationship is likely doomed to fail anyway.

J.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can think of few other business that would ever work on a &#8216;by the song&#8217; basis.  I find making records akin to building (and/or repairing) a house.  Carpenters always work by the hour.  Why?  Because you never really know what you&#8217;re going to run into.  Fact, I gutted my sister&#8217;s bathroom last weekend; a job that I felt would take three days.  Two hours into demo I discover that the toilet flange and drain assembly is completely shot and must be replaced.  Naturally, this adds labor and material cost to the job&#8230;</p>
<p>Records are almost always the same way.  Even when you think you&#8217;ve got a grip on the artist&#8217; talent, ability and readiness levels, there&#8217;s still the whole qualitative end of things.  How solid is your level of value alignment with the client?  Is your notion of &#8216;good&#8217; the same as yours?  Is their &#8216;good&#8217; your &#8216;good enough&#8217;?  Naturally, the inverse could be true, too.</p>
<p>This can lead to serious issues when trying to manage the relationship with your client.</p>
<p>Now &#8211; if you&#8217;re super into an artist and you really want the work, bid for the entire record. But make sure that you can really live with the trade of your time vs. the paycheck.  If I know I can count on a client to keep me busy for three weeks, I&#8217;m more than happy to lower my day rate.  But if I&#8217;m coming in for three hours, you better believe you&#8217;ll be paying premium.</p>
<p>Anyone working for fifteen bucks an hour needs a lesson in business.  That is, unless they are content making minimum wage. All in all, be able to explain your value to your prospective customers &#8211; if they don&#8217;t get it, the relationship is likely doomed to fail anyway.</p>
<p>J.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Schlette</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-5847</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Schlette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2011 18:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-5847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jon, I can sympathize. Post facto file management can be a real time killer. Whenever possible I like to sit down with clients and their files as early as possible (certainly before we settle on the scope of work). A &#039;free&#039; hour of meeting time or remote desktop could save hours down the road.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, I can sympathize. Post facto file management can be a real time killer. Whenever possible I like to sit down with clients and their files as early as possible (certainly before we settle on the scope of work). A &#8216;free&#8217; hour of meeting time or remote desktop could save hours down the road.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Schlette</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-5846</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Schlette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2011 18:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-5846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brandon- I couldn&#039;t agree more about treating clients like individuals. Folks in our business are sometimes too quick to point out that they have &#039;their way&#039; of doing things or that they&#039;ve seen it all before. That kind of attitude is not respectful of the client, or their investment in their art. You&#039;re right; it IS supposed to be fun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon- I couldn&#8217;t agree more about treating clients like individuals. Folks in our business are sometimes too quick to point out that they have &#8216;their way&#8217; of doing things or that they&#8217;ve seen it all before. That kind of attitude is not respectful of the client, or their investment in their art. You&#8217;re right; it IS supposed to be fun.</p>
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		<title>By: From Last Weeks Files &#124; Inside Home Recording</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-5838</link>
		<dc:creator>From Last Weeks Files &#124; Inside Home Recording</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2011 17:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-5838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Schlette over at ProAudioFiles posted: &#8220;Charging an Hourly Rate vs. Charging per Song&#8221; &#8211; a great discussion on where and when you should consider each method for getting [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Schlette over at ProAudioFiles posted: &#8220;Charging an Hourly Rate vs. Charging per Song&#8221; &#8211; a great discussion on where and when you should consider each method for getting [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Peters</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-5837</link>
		<dc:creator>John Peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2011 17:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-5837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have had some less desirable experiences with charging a single sum for all editing and mixing of a few projects I hadn&#039;t recorded.  There ended up being a lot of undisclosed work (mainly production ideas hidden in the client&#039;s brain) as well as lots of editing/file recovery to fix bad DAW management by the engineer.  All in all I was able to get a little more money out of the deal, but not as much as I deserved.  
  Reading above comment by JON, I think I could have benefited from a similar not-to-exceed rate on the whole mixing project, starting with a base rate of what is SHOULD cost if properly prepared...Allowing me to handle unforeseen work and for them to know that they are getting charged for this time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had some less desirable experiences with charging a single sum for all editing and mixing of a few projects I hadn&#8217;t recorded.  There ended up being a lot of undisclosed work (mainly production ideas hidden in the client&#8217;s brain) as well as lots of editing/file recovery to fix bad DAW management by the engineer.  All in all I was able to get a little more money out of the deal, but not as much as I deserved.<br />
  Reading above comment by JON, I think I could have benefited from a similar not-to-exceed rate on the whole mixing project, starting with a base rate of what is SHOULD cost if properly prepared&#8230;Allowing me to handle unforeseen work and for them to know that they are getting charged for this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Sass</title>
		<link>http://theproaudiofiles.com/charging-hourly-rate-vs-per-song/comment-page-1/#comment-5831</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Sass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2011 10:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theproaudiofiles.com/?p=6742#comment-5831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Responding to all entries: 

The studio environment is built on value, each artist (who should be treated individually), is an experience. Charging per song, like Rob mentioned, is great for some clients. Those who are interested in keeping takes that are imperfect or &quot;raw&quot; are great for this approach (generally speaking). The ones who are more interested in a more specifically arranged, layered product may appreciate an hourly approach, as they have prepared for it. 

It&#039;s an interesting balance we have to find, as engineers, to make these differentiations for the artists, but that&#039;s what makes it fun! Deciding how the pricing structure breaks down is all a part of that fun; it&#039;s all about everyone in the room enjoying the process.

Advertising yourself is an important entrepreneurial skill, but it&#039;s more important to understand your clients&#039; needs. For us, in the music industry, everyone needs to feel like someone understands their art, like in any art form. Let us, as engineers, understand our musicians. 

Thanks to everyone for their insightful responses,

Brandon]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Responding to all entries: </p>
<p>The studio environment is built on value, each artist (who should be treated individually), is an experience. Charging per song, like Rob mentioned, is great for some clients. Those who are interested in keeping takes that are imperfect or &#8220;raw&#8221; are great for this approach (generally speaking). The ones who are more interested in a more specifically arranged, layered product may appreciate an hourly approach, as they have prepared for it. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s an interesting balance we have to find, as engineers, to make these differentiations for the artists, but that&#8217;s what makes it fun! Deciding how the pricing structure breaks down is all a part of that fun; it&#8217;s all about everyone in the room enjoying the process.</p>
<p>Advertising yourself is an important entrepreneurial skill, but it&#8217;s more important to understand your clients&#8217; needs. For us, in the music industry, everyone needs to feel like someone understands their art, like in any art form. Let us, as engineers, understand our musicians. </p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for their insightful responses,</p>
<p>Brandon</p>
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